1 Topic by willfig

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I've just starting using Kinovea and it seems to be a really great program. I'm using it estimate maximum swim speeds of fish in tank trials. I've been able to work out how to set the length calibration and display speed along the path.  I have also set the coordinate grid center.  I have not, however been able to successfully export any of this data.  When I try the XML export I get this:

Key Images       
Title :    0:00:01:03   
       
       
Trajectory       
Label :    Label   
Coords (x,y:cm; t:time)       
x    y    t
0    0    0:00:00:00
0    0    0:00:00:04
0    0    0:00:00:08


Also, if I try another file and try an export again I seem to get a file with no data at all...completely blank.  I've tried this on two different computers, one a desktop and one a laptop.  Both running Windows XP, 4MB RAM.  I've tried a few file types.  One was .wmv and the other .mts.

Also while I'm asking, I believe both of these files have variable frame rates. In the file above, the time unit between each point is exactly the same.  So I'm wondering, when speeds are calculated, is the variable time from the file used for each frame or is there some assumption made that the time interval is constant?

Thanks for your help.

2 Reply by joan

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willfig wrote:

Also while I'm asking, I believe both of these files have variable frame rates. In the file above, the time unit between each point is exactly the same.  So I'm wondering, when speeds are calculated, is the variable time from the file used for each frame or is there some assumption made that the time interval is constant?

Variable frame rate is not supported as such. The average framerate is computed from file information and used throughout Kinovea. From what I could gather, variable frame rate files are very rare for regular camcorder and cameras.

About the spreadsheet export, you could try to save to .kva first (from regular save dialog, save analysis data only) and open the result in notepad. In this XML file (Kinovea format), you should see your trajectory data.

If it's not there, the problem is before the export to spreadsheet. If you can see it, the issue is in the spreadsheet export.
In this case, try to export to XHTML or simple text to see if the issue would be specific to the MS-Excel XML export.

Which version are you using ?

3 Reply by willfig

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Hi Joan,

Thanks for the info on frame rates.  Data was captured with a logitech web cam (in .wmv format) and also a Panasonic Lumix in AVHCD lite (.mts) format. When I look at time stamps on each frame they don't always appear to have the same time between frames.

As for the export issue...I'm using version 0.8.7.  I did save a .kva file and when I open it in notepad there does seem to be some data there.  I've just tried exporting to the text format as well as html and those do seem to work.  Though I swear when I tried them before they didn't.  Anyway, I guess the problem is on the Excel conversion. I can import the test data to exel pretty quickly so that should work.  So is the info on speed and/or distance ever output?  I can of course easily calculate that from the coords, just wondering if I'm doing something wrong and not getting it.

I'm hoping to use this to estimate burst swim speeds from a bunch of fish trials for a few different species (probably 50+ videos all up) so being able to do this all quite quickly is important.  On that note, when using the tracking if it loses the fish I have been stopping playback, backing the video up either by grabbing the icon on the track or using the back arrow keys (though this very often doesn't work...probably my variable frame rate based on some other posts I read) then deleting all points after the present one and restarting tracking. Is that the only way to do that. I first thought that if I backed the video up the track would also back up, erasing any errant points.  But this doesn't seem to happen and if I back up, then reset the cross-hair and keep going I wind up with those errant points in the track.

Thanks so much for your help.

4 Reply by joan

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willfig wrote:

Thanks for the info on frame rates.  Data was captured with a logitech web cam (in .wmv format) and also a Panasonic Lumix in AVHCD lite (.mts) format. When I look at time stamps on each frame they don't always appear to have the same time between frames.

It's also possible that the small difference in time stamps is due to rounding error in the output time representation. For example, a common frame rate is 29.97 fps, this would give time stamps that appear to last a tiny bit longer or shorter than the next, but they average out regularly, the frame rate itself does not change.

willfig wrote:

As for the export issue...I'm using version 0.8.7.  I did save a .kva file and when I open it in notepad there does seem to be some data there.  I've just tried exporting to the text format as well as html and those do seem to work.  Though I swear when I tried them before they didn't.

Ha! Now this just reminded me of bug 183. The export wouldn't work for some unknown reason, and then start to work again.
Please retry the Excel export. It may have magically fixed itself.

willfig wrote:

So is the info on speed and/or distance ever output?  I can of course easily calculate that from the coords, just wondering if I'm doing something wrong and not getting it.

Distance and speed on trajectory are not currently exported.

willfig wrote:

when using the tracking if it loses the fish I have been stopping playback, backing the video up either by grabbing the icon on the track or using the back arrow keys (though this very often doesn't work...probably my variable frame rate based on some other posts I read) then deleting all points after the present one and restarting tracking. Is that the only way to do that. I first thought that if I backed the video up the track would also back up, erasing any errant points.

You are doing it the right way (or at least I do similarly).
The data is not erased when you move back in the video to let you move back and re-adjust only a single point manually without changing the others.

5 Reply by litch09

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Joan, I am also having problems with the export to excel function. When I first try to export (without saving the key image data to the .kva file) I get zeros in the x and y coordinates, as was the Willfig's problem. When I then save the key image data and try and re-export the data to the excel xml file, the file contains nothing at all.

I can see the data in the KVA file, but as Willfig points out, it is generally much easier to to export to the Excel format.

I am using 0.8.11.

Also, is it possible to have any comments exported? I am guessing this is difficult because of the formatting etc

6 Reply by willfig

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And a bit more info.  I find that once ive saved the key file i only get empty files if i try to export the data in any format. I have to relaunch the app in order to export.  And this works as long as i don't save the key file first.  No matter what i do i cant get the Excel export which has the x y data.

7 Reply by joan

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Can you retrieve the log file and attach it to the bug 183 please ?
Right after it happen, open the log directory (Help > Open log folder) and get log.txt.
In the bug tracker, look for the "Upload File" segment and browse to the file.
Thanks

8 Reply by willfig

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I've uploaded the file and added a note.  I was unable to login so it is from 'anonymous'

9 Reply by litch09

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I have also uploaded my results which sound very similar. Thanks for all of you hard work Joan!

10 Reply by joan

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Thanks for your help.
Using the logs the issue was clear (looking for the conversion scripts in the current directory instead of the application one) and it's now corrected. It will be fixed in the next experimental version.

11 Reply by joan

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litch09 wrote:

When I first try to export (without saving the key image data to the .kva file) I get zeros in the x and y coordinates

This was a different issue that had been overlooked and it has just been fixed in version 0.8.14.
Due to decimal separator differences (comma vs point) in languages the data with decimal part could be output as 0.
This impacted track coordinates, cross marker coordinates, and length of lines, for every language where the decimal separator is a point.
bug 241.